tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post5790417209060681340..comments2024-02-14T02:30:36.732-05:00Comments on The Blog of Helios: New User Barrier To Linux - I Think I Found The Problem....Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13978117986484281976noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-21564417148806176192013-10-13T10:41:07.871-05:002013-10-13T10:41:07.871-05:00good info on | Linux basics |good info on <a href="http://theopensourcelinux.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow"><b>| Linux basics | </b></a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-23498995876254855932013-10-09T12:51:01.554-05:002013-10-09T12:51:01.554-05:00Hah! I love the fact that almost all of the commen...Hah! I love the fact that almost all of the comments on your post were posted by some "Anon" person. Those cowards.<br /><br />That said, I think you (the author) had a great post but you tried to mix in too many things. Let me explain. <br /><br />1) That story of the flight-sim playing kid - completely useless and pushed things off track.<br />2) You showed your Windows lineage a bit too clearly. Things don't work the Windowy way in the Linux world.<br />3) I agree with most commentators that you should have just done an "apt-get" or "yum" install of the package.<br />4) Ignore the idiots who say they haven't downloaded a tgz package. These are useless users who don't really contribute to the Linux world. Tgz is the main-stay of the linux world and will always be. But, the fact is that if you "just a user" you should first search your repos to see if the package you want is available in the repos. If the package is not available then, and ONLY THEN, should you download the tgz. Also, always download the source tgz and "./configure && make && make install" the package. :)<br /><br />So, bottom line: I completely agree that the "real problem" you are alluding to in your post EXISTS in the Linux world. We love to write cryptic instructions because we don't want the 3rd world programmers to catch up to our technologies. ;-) But, your use of a "fighter pilot's flight-sim playing kid" in the story totally blew it. Next time don't write stories, just stick to the facts.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16090865353240966583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-87442751025985937352013-10-09T01:21:40.555-05:002013-10-09T01:21:40.555-05:00Ken you chose a really bad example here. Everythin...Ken you chose a really bad example here. Everything you did was completely unnecessary.tracyannehttps://plus.google.com/u/0/b/101084498144178405906/101084498144178405906/postsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-64756404382677512962013-10-08T18:42:51.045-05:002013-10-08T18:42:51.045-05:00It doesn't bother me the least bit to get comp...It doesn't bother me the least bit to get complex instructions as long as they work. What bothers me is getting instructions that are specific to a certain environment and will not work in mine. I've looked for answers in the past and received detail Gnome or KDE instructions which would not work for me. Bottom line is developers are not purposely making complex instructions, just instructions that will worktwogunmickeynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-75280996842370024462013-10-08T07:33:30.287-05:002013-10-08T07:33:30.287-05:00The only Linux "distros" that have figu...The only Linux "distros" that have figured out end-users are Google's. Android apps are vetted by the Play Store and are a snap to install and remove. In Chrome OS the Linux is slaving in the cellar, while HTML5 provides an increasingly impressive user-experience in the browser. Linux is and will remain a fine back-end platform with mechanics who don't mind the gobbledygook, and in fact cherish it because the only money to be made will be by specialists maintaining commercial systems. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-27203726911708972812013-10-08T06:07:42.597-05:002013-10-08T06:07:42.597-05:00The beauty is ... ANYONE CAN FIX IT.The beauty is ... ANYONE CAN FIX IT.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-83319884672951117552013-10-08T04:50:00.143-05:002013-10-08T04:50:00.143-05:00You were using Ubuntu? Traceroute is installed alr...You were using Ubuntu? Traceroute is installed already as part of the Network Tools - it's a default package why would you install another one? You see, the problem is more about more about educating the user (and in this case the user's mentor) about how to actually find the right tool of which is likely already installed. Hint: Use "The Dash".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-67734345672761110472013-10-07T23:32:27.299-05:002013-10-07T23:32:27.299-05:00You are absolutely right. There is a way out thoug...You are absolutely right. There is a way out though: my old man had to write a paper for his work. He had never done it before and asked me how to do it. I told him: <br /><br />"Imagine the dummest person you know on the workfloor and write for him."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-33373922423763043012013-10-07T22:47:36.343-05:002013-10-07T22:47:36.343-05:00I have used Linux (Debian based mostly) exclusivel...I have used Linux (Debian based mostly) exclusively since 2005. I have not downloaded a package in tar.gz format for as long as I remember.<br /><br />Certainly not a traceroute package. You write you "know" stuff, but it seems to me you know the windows way and not how to do it the linux way. :)<br /><br />A clear case of PEBKAC. ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-62699712070234725382013-10-07T22:08:29.301-05:002013-10-07T22:08:29.301-05:00I think the real question is: what flight sim is h...I think the real question is: what flight sim is he playing? I mean, come one, I wanna play too!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-49056841760266085152013-10-07T21:51:55.219-05:002013-10-07T21:51:55.219-05:00All modern distributions have some sort of package...All modern distributions have some sort of package manager that makes installing/updating standard tools mostly painless. I am personally the sort that will grab tarballs of tools and all of the supporting libraries and compile it all myself in order to get the right versions and or options that I want. Even so, a "normal" user should never need to do that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-71434639993480210762013-10-07T18:26:17.515-05:002013-10-07T18:26:17.515-05:00Why did you download a tar.gz file and go through ...Why did you download a tar.gz file and go through the bother of extracting it and etc? <br /><br />Why did you not simply install it from the Software repository? I did, it was drop dead easy.... Gui tools all the way, very newbie friendly.tracyannehttps://plus.google.com/u/0/b/101084498144178405906/101084498144178405906/postsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-29029565336913769542013-10-07T17:16:09.971-05:002013-10-07T17:16:09.971-05:00I don't see the point here. Every distro shoul...I don't see the point here. Every distro should come with traceroute installed, or it should be in the repo. The problem is that you had some presumably easier tool in mind that wasn't standard and enforced it at an 11 year old. I don't mean to be rude, but please try to stick with the defaults the os provides. It also makes learning for children easier.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-68592119162618639422013-10-07T16:50:52.131-05:002013-10-07T16:50:52.131-05:00There's a lack of value seen in this sort of t...There's a lack of value seen in this sort of thing.<br /><br />For 3 years I worked on something called the "Manaiakalani Project". I approached it with a focus on usability.<br /><br />While working on the project I was paid for desktop support with next to no money paid to me for the development of the tools needed to make it all work.<br /><br />Now, as an unemployed geek, I've found there is absolutely no work within a desktop Linux space. If there's no value seen in it, I'm inclined to think "why bother?".<br /><br />Which moves usability into a hobbyist space. A lot of code is released as a "others might find it useful" kind of a thing. Without any value seen in making it usable, this problem is going to remain.<br /><br />Basically - this is a much bigger problem which stems from the fact that a lot of us out there are developing software that WE find useful. Without encouragement and resources to make it usable to a larger audience, why wouldn't we stop when our use for it stops?Nevynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01470520503000223131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-28341659946941968482013-10-07T16:50:26.893-05:002013-10-07T16:50:26.893-05:00There's a lack of value seen in this sort of t...There's a lack of value seen in this sort of thing.<br /><br />For 3 years I worked on something called the "Manaiakalani Project". I approached it with a focus on usability.<br /><br />While working on the project I was paid for desktop support with next to no money paid to me for the development of the tools needed to make it all work.<br /><br />Now, as an unemployed geek, I've found there is absolutely no work within a desktop Linux space. If there's no value seen in it, I'm inclined to think "why bother?".<br /><br />Which moves usability into a hobbyist space. A lot of code is released as a "others might find it useful" kind of a thing. Without any value seen in making it usable, this problem is going to remain.<br /><br />Basically - this is a much bigger problem which stems from the fact that a lot of us out there are developing software that WE find useful. Without encouragement and resources to make it usable to a larger audience, why wouldn't we stop when our use for it stops?Nevynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01470520503000223131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-17040371012635369232013-10-07T15:21:07.861-05:002013-10-07T15:21:07.861-05:00I have had similar experiences. The most frustrat...I have had similar experiences. The most frustrating was when I decided to not use GNOME, about eight or ten years ago. I installed it, then tried to work with it. I searched the website for documentation and didn't find any.<br /><br />So I wrote, using the "contact us" on the website and asked if there was any documentation. I was new to GNOME and wanted to know how to get started doing things that the developers boasted about on their website. The reply merely suggested that I help them write documentationThe reply was sent and signed Miguel de Icaza. I don't know if he really sent such a rude e-mail. Yes, rude. You don't know the basics, so why don't you help write the documentation? If I knew enough to write documentation, I wouldn't be asking for documentation. Basically, someone there was blowing me off.<br /><br />But they had, and the major GUI's still have a problem of doing the boring, unpleasant (for a programmer) job of clearly explaining how to do things to non-programmers.<br /><br />Steve Jobs got one thing exactly right: he emphasized the importance of the "insanely great" user experience. Not just for the guys who wrote it, but for everyone who might use it. GNOME, KDE, Xfce, LXDE, and especially Windows haven't focused on that, to their detriment. Mainly, I think because it requires boring attention to the details and minutae that are a pain in the rear to get right, but are essential to that "insanely great" user experience.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-85121732521402385572013-10-07T15:01:59.910-05:002013-10-07T15:01:59.910-05:00This is one of the reasons that I use Debian. Beca...This is one of the reasons that I use Debian. Because this kind of thing does happen.<br /><br />Matt's TraceRoute, or MTR, is very easy to use, and installs with a "apt-get install mtr".<br /><br />And I thought that "traceroute" was a standard command line tool. If you have to type "wget", you might as well just type "traceroute foo".<br />Curt-https://www.blogger.com/profile/15378506296755879713noreply@blogger.com