tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post8118636287207537049..comments2024-02-14T02:30:36.732-05:00Comments on The Blog of Helios: Bob Sutor - Here are your "Dead Ends"Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13978117986484281976noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-54552285167144849182011-03-25T05:35:35.269-06:002011-03-25T05:35:35.269-06:00What a loosers.
Why they think someone will take ...<b>What a loosers.<br /><br />Why they think someone will take care for their toy Linux desktop when they even cannot/wont not to fix its errors?</b><br /><br />You mean like your English?<br /><br />I'm just sayin'...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-38065992768886183882011-03-25T02:51:39.559-06:002011-03-25T02:51:39.559-06:00What a loosers.
Why they think someone will take ...What a loosers.<br /><br />Why they think someone will take care for their toy Linux desktop when they even cannot/wont not to fix its errors?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-67556845496314261862009-10-12T19:09:35.623-05:002009-10-12T19:09:35.623-05:00Hey I for one like that "Linux is a component...Hey I for one like that "Linux is a component" comment. The OS (my apologies to RMS, merely quoting here) is a "component"... I'll slap that in the face of the next OEM's support people going through their ready-made checklist of counterarguments, when I call them to get a refund on the MS license I don't plan on using. "Nope, the OS isn't an integral part of that notebook of yours that I've just purchased, it's a COMPONENT". Hehe...<br /><br />Sarcasm aside, and given the recently announced joint effort of IBM and Canonical for Africa, I wonder if the Linux desktop comments aren't simply poorly worded, or rather, unconsciously abstracted from their context: Mr Sutor might have had the local US retailer channels in mind, and spoke inadvertently in broad terms (or phrased it so the audience would think as much).<br /><br />Quite like the much touted "proven 1% market share" that was all the rage a few weeks ago... Read the fine print and the data is taken from North American web surfing statistics (erm Canada isn't included though eh?), collected from one agency.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-84004996042225603852009-09-27T23:20:38.206-05:002009-09-27T23:20:38.206-05:00Chelle, don't beat up the trolls...I enjoy dis...Chelle, don't beat up the trolls...I enjoy disassembling them myself.<br /><br />So you want me to give these kids a system that will make them spend their time with patches, viruses, cpu-clogging antivirus software?<br /><br />You are asking me to give them a two legged pony.<br /><br />Chelle was kind in calling you a dolt...I personally had moron in mind but hey...who am I to judge.<br /><br />hAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13978117986484281976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-88994562433286113252009-09-27T23:17:01.363-05:002009-09-27T23:17:01.363-05:00"You can all do this "feel good" wo..."You can all do this "feel good" work with a Windows or Mac machine. Why does it have to be Linux? Children would be more productive."<br /><br />Either you are totally ignorant of the tech field and associated costs or you are a troll..<br /><br />Even a 14 year old can figure out there are licensing costs and software costs involved in both of your "solutions".<br /><br />It's Linux because it is free to distribute and free to alter. <br /><br />What a dolt...<br /><br />But I mean that in a warm and supporting way.<br /><br />ChelleMichelle Minkin - Seattlenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-4689980520391509692009-09-27T22:05:05.742-05:002009-09-27T22:05:05.742-05:00You can all do this "feel good" work wit...You can all do this "feel good" work with a Windows or Mac machine. Why does it have to be Linux? Children would be more productive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-84048946243250054552009-09-26T14:59:37.317-05:002009-09-26T14:59:37.317-05:00aside from not catering to the small gaming niche ...aside from not catering to the small gaming niche as described above, variety of 3rd party applications available for (yes, very niche specific needs) is another issue. I for one always find a niche need, but even the mainstream nix-equivalency apps out there I just don't like the clunky interfaces we're stuck with. I strictly use Linux for network/security specific needs where it remains unsurpassed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-15730493994662780722009-09-26T07:37:35.895-05:002009-09-26T07:37:35.895-05:00I have introduced thousands to GNU/Linux. None of ...I have introduced thousands to GNU/Linux. None of them suggested they could not do their jobs in GNU/Linux. A few clung to that other OS because they had their file-system locked in. Surveys of businesses find that around 80% of tasks can be done using GNU/Linux. Users who work on those tasks can migrate easily.<br /><br />Certainly, for the home user, only some games are a consideration. Gamers are a small niche.Robert Pogsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09576863980224431680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-59553298344560776792009-09-25T18:25:40.307-05:002009-09-25T18:25:40.307-05:00@ Bob Sutor...
Bob, my point is that NOW the Linu...@ Bob Sutor...<br /><br />Bob, my point is that NOW the Linux Desktop is good enough to pull ghetto kids off the streets and into their homes to do their homework assignments...I've seen it, and even helped with it hundreds of times.<br /><br />Look, I know I have an acid-dipped quill at times but I am a on-focus advocate that can show you hundreds of kids that use linux just fine right now.<br /><br />This very moment...<br /><br />It doesn't HAVE to be better now...when they have no alternative to an expensive or buggy MS machine, then The Linux Desktop in its current form is a dead-on drop-in.<br /><br />hAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13978117986484281976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-63676937729830888882009-09-25T10:36:19.208-05:002009-09-25T10:36:19.208-05:00then Mr. Sutor and I have indeed found common grou...then Mr. Sutor and I have indeed found common ground.<br /><br />hAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13978117986484281976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-87230520329521860542009-09-25T10:06:30.389-05:002009-09-25T10:06:30.389-05:00I am self employed in the computer service/support...I am self employed in the computer service/support business. Heres my take. <br /><br />I try to offer Linux to as many people as I can. While Linux has improved a lot in the past few years we have lost some versions that were offering my customers the best chance at making the switch without problems. Those versions were targeted by Microsoft with their (oooooh ahhhh) secret patents routine. Xandros for instance.<br /><br />Since then I have seen steady improvement in Ubuntu/Kubuntu but they are not where they need to be for me to not suffer "blowback" from problems that arise after the system is in the customers hands. <br /><br />Don't get me wrong, <br /><br />Ubuntu/Kubuntu is well done and on track. I see these issues on my own systems. Yesterdays example was one of my systems deciding it no longer had a keyboard in KDE. After digging around the net I discovered that "slow keys" had been activated. I hadn't enabled this so your guess is as good as mine why this occurred. This kind of issue is a make/break for people trying to move customers from Windows to Linux.<br /><br />So I agree that Linux in general is now improving steadily these kinds of issues are make/break for guys at the face to face customer level. Yes, Linux is better than Windows in many areas but if just a few of these kinds of problems are allowed into production releases guys like me risk losing our good reps with customers because WE stuck our necks out for Linux by "selling" the customer the idea of moving to Linux and WE face those customers directly.<br /><br />So Bob Sutor is right in his complete statements...."we need to make something better."<br /><br />On another note here's a simple strategy for Linux advocates to help move people to Linux.<br /><br />Microsoft has for years colluded with computer manufacturers to increase sales of Windows through some pretty rude methods. One such method is to get the manufacturers to not include disks with sale's of computer systems. Instead, they place a copy of the customers software on the hard drive and claim the customer can restore the system using a built in utility. Obviously this can fail in any number of ways leaving the customer high and dry with no option but to purchase another copy of Windows to revive their perfectly good hardware or buy another Windows system.<br /><br />WE are that option.<br /><br />If you are a person doing this for a living try this the next time you see this scenario.<br /><br />A customer comes in with a trashed Windows system requiring reload. They have no disks. The manufacturers hard drive restore does not work.<br /><br />If you are the typical greedy Microsoft shop you could keep your mouth shut counting your shekels in advance of an impending sale.<br /><br />Or<br /><br />If you want to really offer the customer options that include Linux you could offer the following..<br /><br />1. I can provide you with a legal copy of Windows for your system at $x.xx plus install/setup time.<br /><br />2. You can provide me a legal copy of Windows for your system at whatever it costs you plus my install/setup time.<br /><br />3. I can provide you with a completely free copy of Linux, including disk (imagine that!) plus my install/setup time.<br /><br />As we all know installing and setting up Linux generally takes less time than Windows. Number 3 will likely be the cheapest route for the customer.<br /><br />Take time to explain what Linux is. Don't sugar coat what the customer might be facing when making this kind of move. Ask questions. Evaluate whether this will be a viable option for them. If they give you signals that it won't work take the #3 off the table. Tell them why so they leave informed of the issues locking them into Microsoft.<br /><br />Now going back to what I was saying at the beginning of this post. Make future versions of Linux, such as Ubuntu/Kubuntu, so they don't come back to bite me in the butt with problems like "slow keys" turning on out of nowhere. Using strategies like I describe I can steadily increase Linux users by using Microsoft corrupt practices against themselves.<br /><br /><br />"we need to make something better."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-40836505666548711092009-09-25T07:30:21.353-05:002009-09-25T07:30:21.353-05:00Winter, yes it does, but it does not negate the pr...Winter, yes it does, but it does not negate the prevailing attitude, as seen in the clip I linked, that Linux isn't a solution, it is a device. Even Jim Zemlin of LF said the same thing to Tom King and me.<br /><br />Their attitude, in private chambers and boardrooms is that Linux is a tool they can use...my kids however do not enter into the equation.<br /><br />hAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13978117986484281976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-39375609213910910632009-09-25T04:32:43.590-05:002009-09-25T04:32:43.590-05:00I quite clearly remember that the UNIX philosophy ...I quite clearly remember that the UNIX philosophy is something like "using the right tool for the job". Well then, has it ever occurred to some here, that the right tools aren't always available on Linux? Switching to Linux ultimately means that I willingly cripple myself. The inconvenient truth is: most Linux software that aims to replicate/replace commercial or free (not open source) software, is sub-par. Freedom ain't worth a dime if I can't do my job. Just good enough doesn't always cut it. This no-matter-what stance here is seriously disturbing.<br /><br />I have also just yesterday installed Windows 7 which I got for free through MSDNAA. I recently bought Snow Leopard for my Mac. Should I now feel guilty? No way. The Linux of today can't offer me a single incentive that would make me switch, even despite the fact that both Windows and Mac OS X have their shortcomings. But for me they're better systems than Linux. And people like you seemingly can't accept the fact that there are people who willingly choose Windows and/or Mac OS X over Linux, despite it coming at no cost.<br /><br />Are they or am I therefore any less free? Not in my opinion. I have two systems that don't get in my way, have never restricted me in any way and provide the tools that I need to get my work done. If another system can't do the same, then I'm not free. And right now, for *me*, Linux still can't do this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-20687633722751263232009-09-25T01:52:14.266-05:002009-09-25T01:52:14.266-05:00You might want to read the original presentation o...You might want to read the original presentation of Bob Sutor. See his blog:<br />http://www.sutor.com/newsite/blog-open/?p=4269<br /><br />Or the extract Helios mentioned:<br />http://www.sutor.com/newsite/blog-open/?p=4274<br /><br />"Of course I added a few spoken comments, but be certain of one thing: the Linux desktop is not to be discounted and, as I list as the fifth possibility, it could end up with sizable marketshare:<br /><br /> 1. It goes away.<br /> 2. We stop using desktops, so who cares?<br /> 3. The Linux desktop becomes a tactic instead of a strategy.<br /> 4. One Linux desktop distribution ends up with 90% marketshare among those using Linux desktops.<br /> 5. One Linux desktop distribution ends up with 90% marketshare among all desktops.<br /> 6. We reach 33% / 33% / 33% parity with Microsoft® Windows® / Apple® Mac OS® / Linux, plus or minus.<br /> 7. We stop pretending that it will be a drop-in replacement for the dominant desktop operating system, and make it something better.<br /> 8. The enterprise sweet spot for Linux desktops is virtualized Linux desktops.<br /> 9. We focus on usability, stability, security, reliability, performance, with some cool thrown in.<br /> 10. It’s the browser, stupid."<br /><br />Places everything in a completely different perspective.<br /><br />WinterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-47500249940659244942009-09-24T19:04:51.953-05:002009-09-24T19:04:51.953-05:00I'm not sure helios qualifies as an "fsf ...I'm not sure helios qualifies as an "fsf guy...maybe some of the commenters are but helios has had his run-ins with those that demand free software purity.<br /><br />But that's fine. When one falls with the flag, there are tens to hundreds of thousands behind him to pick it up. <br /><br />Dave M.David Meyersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-88318896376682797512009-09-24T18:50:26.869-05:002009-09-24T18:50:26.869-05:00I love linux and the purpose she serves, but ffs y...I love linux and the purpose she serves, but ffs you guys are more dramatic than the mac crowd -- to a damn near sociopathic degree.<br /><br />Kinda less eager to raise my penguin flag after reading through some of this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-58595220400973055532009-09-24T18:31:37.433-05:002009-09-24T18:31:37.433-05:00Ken,
The ideals of open-source and Linux are, as...Ken, <br /><br />The ideals of open-source and Linux are, as you stated being imbedded in today's youth as we speak. Those kids are going to go on to college and get degrees in computer science. These kids are the future of everything. They eventually will control the industry and government. Having been raised on Linux instead of the competitor, Guess what they're going to be sympathetic too?<br /><br />How many times are we seeing examples where people are using/developing for/supporting windows because they don't know there's a real choice out there. <br /><br />About 9 months ago, me and my wife went to get an ultrasound done on my unborn son (now 5 months old) and the ultrasound machine was one of those portable wheelie kind of deals made by GE. It was running Windows XP Embedded. The only reason I know this is because they had to reboot the damn thing before it would work properly. It made me frown that GE would use XP Embedded, pay extortion fees to MS and pass the cost onto the health industry who then has to charge ridiculous prices to your insurance company who then has to raise your premiums. <br /><br />We're paying MS a lot more money than we think we are even after we switch to desktop Linux.Kevin (Whizard72)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17588463367019332598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-15078499795599190282009-09-24T12:17:50.305-05:002009-09-24T12:17:50.305-05:00Nice try Stanley....
Now either go get a job or m...Nice try Stanley....<br /><br />Now either go get a job or make sure your mommy or daddy know you are on the computer.<br /><br />hAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13978117986484281976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-30272813415652459252009-09-24T08:29:15.210-05:002009-09-24T08:29:15.210-05:00It's very odd that I spoke about 10 different ...It's very odd that I spoke about 10 different possible futures, including one where I said that Linux on the desktop could potentially get 90% of all desktop share (presumably something you would like), yet you focused on the more negative ones. Readers who want to see the full list can do so for themselves at http://www.sutor.com/newsite/blog-open/?p=4274.bob_sutorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01254974808322087479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-42092580739043652942009-09-24T08:10:02.996-05:002009-09-24T08:10:02.996-05:00@Mark,
Exactly. But, while the strategy is being...@Mark, <br /><br />Exactly. But, while the strategy is being worked out, Ken's tactics is working wonderfully. <br /><br />Just a small note: a query went out on the company intranet, asking for experience in large-scale desktop migration from Windows to Linux. They mention 30 to 40 % of 100 000 desktops, in Germany. Oh, and the main system used is written in Java and most probably a drop-in on Linux. /me is delighted!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-37594945699531825642009-09-24T07:19:43.869-05:002009-09-24T07:19:43.869-05:00I think attacking Mr. Sutor is irresponsible in th...I think attacking Mr. Sutor is irresponsible in that he's the wrong guy. You're just pointing at someone already in the media and I understand that tact. Sure.<br /><br />Linux is no drop-in replacement for Windows, it's far and away a better solution. It's computing, not chasing the pretty bouncing ball.<br /><br />I think everybody understands what the Open Source (Linux being its greatest project) community is up against but we're all trying to take it down by playing their game. Lol, Microsoft is the BEST at what it does - FUD because it's entrenched, buys legislation, etc., etc., etc. trying to compete against that with logic or sob stories or feel-good stories is a waste of time.<br /><br />Trying to show how Windows is garbage just makes us all look like little kids in a school-yard to the simple people tolerating Windows, because their God says so...<br /><br />Giving computers to people is righteous. I do it, too, many of us do. It's fundamental and it beats hell out of advertising. Getting that kid comfortable with GNU/Linux on his own terms is truth; no convert, no "win" just another that can see with his/her own eyes.<br /><br />Too few of us can.<br /><br />We're trying to compete with idiot 12 year old kids with vehement attitudes, terrible mouths and manners, and more savvy online than we (collectively) do. They have Microsoft behind them (honestly I can't fathom why anyone defends Microsoft), they have momentum, they have history. Sure, it's all BS, but they have it anyway.<br /><br />When a body has an impression it's earth-shaking to introduce another that may be more beneficial. Pfft -- almost impossible.<br /><br />Mr. Sutor is in his separate world, sure - like the politicians that make our rules and squander our planet for a buck -- try talking to one of them. Lol - dumb as dirt and singularly minded as to how (s)he can get off more at our expense or how to get a free pool or ensure his buddie's business stays in the black. Or rape a region to employ 3400 when another less costly manner exists...<br /><br />The kids in my neighborhood are like any other kid anywhere - they listen to whomever they perceive as cool. Since I'm the "bike-guy" and I hang with the local crowd here sometimes they think I'm cool. For an old guy. Their parents think I'm pretty cool, too - but not as wealthy or powerful as Microsoft so I must not know anything. My advice or experience isn't worth a damn to them.<br /><br />Kids follow the cool and adults follow the money.<br /><br />It's so simple -- hawk GNU/Linux on late-night TV infomercials wearing fancy Gucci loafers and thousand dollar suits. This way those drone parents get the impression that they are getting something righteous because they are BUYING. <br /><br />Soon enough the coolest kid in the neighborhood is running Linux. Shortly thereafter all the wannabes are, too.<br /><br />But some would argue that this method is weak - too fragile. Lol -- yeah -- smart people avoid the media and pop-culture but it hasn't stopped that monster from controlling our lives. So -- tell me how weak this is again.<br /><br />The Open Source community has a lot of warts to offer, too. Immature and anti-social misfit coders, demanding coders that tell folks - you want it, fix it yourself. Releasing programs to the public at version 0.7 - yep folks, there may be bugs but that's OK because we have already programmed you to accept software with bugs.<br /><br />The public hears about Microsoft buying some company or squashing some company but they don't care at all because next year they get a fabulous new "Microsoft Tweaked" feature to pay for. Whether they want it or not...whether it works or not.<br /><br />I gotta stop. Both sides in this ridiculous "war" are simply prolonging a thing to their benefit. It's asinine but it's the way we allow things to go on...we like the entertainment and some of you get off on hearing that misfit 12 year old spout venom in their secret 12 year old web language.<br /><br />All righty then, indeed....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-2764049418523458442009-09-24T07:17:07.253-05:002009-09-24T07:17:07.253-05:00I'm glad Mark Unwin already picked you up on t...I'm glad Mark Unwin already picked you up on this. My understanding was he did not say "linux desktop a dead end" he said pursuing Windows was. That what really mattered was something better or niches or just other things.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01827549913948838852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-16440379050932110522009-09-24T06:17:13.948-05:002009-09-24T06:17:13.948-05:00quote::What was not picked up as much in the media...quote::What was not picked up as much in the media was his next sentence: "we need to make something better."<br /><br />Actually the something "better" that Bob Suter wants is Linux tethered to a Corporate owned Cloud Computing "solution".<br /><br />In other words one where IBM is in control not you the computer's "owner".<br /><br />Suter deserve all the stick Ken can dish, and in point of fact he was very mild.<br /><br />They the, so called, "Linux Community" that make up the likes of the Linux Foundation are only interested in creating their vertical markets, their walled gardens, and a Free Desktop is not part of their vision. The only way a Free Desktop will ever gain market share is when we the little people, the real Linux Community, the people who don't matter in the eyes of the Corporate community, make it happen. Ken has shown a way.tracyannehttp://lxer.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-65134465743203917152009-09-24T04:25:57.231-05:002009-09-24T04:25:57.231-05:00Deliberately missing the point seems to be a virtu...Deliberately missing the point seems to be a virtue of a great many Linux users:<br /><br /><i>"Most people say, 'I don't want to be bothered. It just works. I want to do the other parts of my job, and I want to go home,'" said Sutor. "So this, I think, is going to be a major, major portion that determines possibly some of those futures. What are we really trying to do with this thing? <b>I think making it a complete drop-in replacement is a dead-end strategy.</b><br /><br />"They've got a little more money," Sutor said about Microsoft and Apple. "But even more important than that, they've got the market share and the mindshare. We need lots of different attacks on this problem through lots of different technologies. <b>I think the Linux desktop is critical to that, but it has to find its niche of what it does really well, at what price point, and which people. You shouldn't be thinking of it as one great desktop for everyone.</b> I really feel that way. You have to do what we call 'market segmentation.'"</i>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33801994.post-57608151534326978592009-09-24T03:29:10.110-05:002009-09-24T03:29:10.110-05:00There are various UI conventions and ideas (button...There are various UI conventions and ideas (buttons, edit fields, clipboard, drag & drop) that are used as tools for interacting with the computer. Each platform (Gnome, KDE, MacOSX, Windows 95-2000, XP, Vista and Windows 7; even the web and games) all have their own look and behaviour for each of these.<br /><br />To that extent, there is a shared convention about look and feel, and expected behaviour.<br /><br />With the emergence of multi-touch devices, to ignore this just because Microsoft or Apple have done it on their platforms is wrong. But then, the Linux community should do it *better*.<br /><br />With the application store, Apple have iTunes and Microsoft have plans for their own. Linux already has this with the package managers and Add/Remove programs. However, many people don't realise this.<br /><br />Linux should definitely not just be seen as a Microsoft or Apple clone. But if it goes too far from established conventions, it risks alienating users even further.<br /><br />It will be interesting to see where things like the Gnome shell and Moblin UI go.Reece Dunnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17679867226868145259noreply@blogger.com